Simple Church Minute--Leadership among God's people over history

 Today, I am reprising my post of September 14, 2011.  About three years ago, I wrote a number of scripts for what, in my mind, were two minute radio commentaries on various subjects which are behind what has been called simple, organic church.  Almost all never got used as radio programs, but they do break down the reasoning behind non-organizational fellowship around Jesus from a belief and history standpoint.  On this one, at the bottom, I have added footnotes (when I originally published these, as I was thinking radio, I didn't write my sources down--I am attempting to correct that).  At the bottom, I reference www.hrscn.com, a website that services non-organizational churches in the Hampton Roads, VA area--at www.simplechurch.org, there is a place to possibly find similar connections in other areas of the world.
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2016—leadership in God’s people over history

            My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute.  In the Old Testament, after Joshua led the chosen people into Israel, the Bible tells us that for about 200 years, God Himself was the leader, with persons called judges as the human leaders.  These persons had wider responsibility than what we think of a judge today as having. For one thing, having responsibility for people before God did and still does have a spiritual element.  Still, as it says in Judges chapter 21 verse 25, “In those days, there was no king in Israel, everyone did what was right in his own eyes.”  There were threats by enemies in various directions, and the people, who were the chosen people not by faith but by to whom they were born, eventually demanded a king, the story of which is in First Samuel chapter 8 and following.

            In the time of the New Covenant, God raised up a new chosen people by faith, not ethnicity.  They were opposed by both the Old Covenant status quo supporters and the government who heard that believers in Jesus saw Him, not the emperor, as king.  The church had no buildings to destroy, and leadership was by gifting, not to which family you were born to or under what person or group you were trained by. As an underground group that wasn’t a true organization, there was no need to collect money, except to help the poor, both from within and neighbors in need nearby AND also to assist fellow mature believers who were constrained by the Spirit to travel to areas where people had not heard the message of Jesus.  Even then, the apostle we know the most about is Paul, who had a skill by which he didn’t have to depend on others as he spoke about Jesus in his travels around the northern Mediterranean.

            Whether it was intentional or accidental, when the Roman Empire made faith in Jesus officially legal, it forced the trappings of religions of the world it was familiar with onto Christianity—buildings, paid staff, regular collection of money to pay for the buildings and paid staff, and tax-favored status for the now formal organizations. History shows that if something is forced onto a culture for a period of time long enough that no one remembers the thing not being around, everyone treats it as normal.  For instance, in this culture, no one remembers not having radio, and almost everyone doesn’t remember not having TV, and with them, news from around the world being whipped to us almost immediately. 

            I grew up with it assumed that a church was a building and a pastor held a job that one went to school for years to be able to do.  When I was in high school, I learned that there were some pastors and people who taught them or were their overseers who did not believe the standard beliefs of faith in Jesus.  Years later, I learned about spiritual gifts, but where I was, most of the talk was about speaking in tongues, not about who was the one who appointed the leaders.  About this same time, I met persons who didn’t have a church leadership title, but did have a special ability to teach about faith in Jesus in a way that spoke to both my mind and into my spirit, or at least the latter.  Some of these people did normal, everyday jobs.  Only in the past couple of years did I learn that the title “pastor” was not used as a title for a leader until after the Reformation, and that that word’s appearance uniquely in Ephesians chapter 4 verse 11 in our English Bibles does not reflect a unique word in the original written language, but was a translation decision by persons who reflected their experience of church—whether accidentally or intentionally, only they knew.  Leadership in the true church, the believers desiring to follow Jesus, is not a title for any person or group to hand out, but a responsibility accepted by a believer in Jesus who cannot do other than whatever the Spirit guides, AND if that includes sharing with other believers or not yet believers what he or she has learned about following Jesus rightly AND if that falls into one or more of the categories of leaders mentioned in the Bible*, so be it.

             I can be reached by email at (757757tev@gmail.com--website posted originally is no longer in use) or by phone at 757-735-3639.  To see a transcript of what I just said, my blog is tevyebird.blogspot.com, and this is the posting of September 14, 2011.To find out more about simple church internationally, visit www.simplechurch.com, and in the local area, at, www.hrscn.org.
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Frank Viola and George Barna, Pagan Christianity, 2002: Present Testimony Ministry, later, Barna Books/Tyndale House, p. 12,13, 18, 21, 107, 176, 177.
2 Cor. 2:17 clearly connects to this discussion, but not mentioned in the text above.
*correction of the way I phrased the sentence originally.

On www.tithing-russkelly.com

                        One feature of the church I am part of is that of the background difference of the three adult men who take an overly large amount of the discussion of the Bible passage in question any given day.  I say overly large in that I believe that we wish everyone would take an equal share, and would encourage that, but that is something that can’t be forced.  Anyway, one of us has come from a fundamental Baptist background, another (myself) comes from growing up in a mildly Calvinistic background, followed by a couple of decades in Pentecostal/Charismatic “churches”, and another from our modern western secularist/mildly anti-Christian culture.  This variance in background brings into our church’s study of the Bible a variety of streams of thought that bring about greater understanding for all of us, I believe.

            Yesterday, we were continuing to study the book of James.  Somehow, as various persons came into the study, we wound up back on the subject of tithing, which I think a couple of us (myself being one) have had to go over so often over the past couple of years, I, personally, am sick of it, but is totally necessary for my brothers and sisters who have only heard our western status quo teaching which has no basis in the New Covenant.

            To that effect, my brother sent out a Facebook post, which I imagine included those who came in yesterday who had not heard this discussion before.  As I glanced over it, this writer brings up some historical points that I had not heard expressed in the manner he does.  Therefore, this is written to point out this writing: www.tithing-russkelly.com. Other than this writing, I know nothing about this writer other than what is on this site.

2001--tithe over time (revised)

            Today, this post is another revision of a previously posted commentary.  Once I actually attempt to record these, problems show up that are not so obvious in writing originally.  In this case, these were written for a five minute time frame, and the previous version, I could read in about three and one-half.  Further, this commentary has some of the same ideas as the commentary I posted two days ago.

            Also, I am concentrating on at the end of these writings giving more citations of where I got the information.  Hopefully, this will help someone.

2001—the tithe over time

            My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute.  Today, a little bit about how the idea of the tithe has morphed over time.  In the days of the Old Covenant with the physical chosen people, the Jews, there were three tithes.  The first was the temple tax, which was for maintenance of the temple in Jerusalem, the Levites and the priests.  Key verses which speak about this one are Leviticus 27 verses 30 through 33 and Numbers 18 verses 26 to 32.  The second tithe was to pay for the festivals commanded in Torah, the Law or Teaching of Moses.  Key verses for this are Numbers 18 verses 20 to 26, Deuteronomy 12 verses 1 to 19, and Deuteronomy 14 verses 22 to 26.  The third tithe was voluntary, and was a third of a tithe or a tithe every third year, and is based on Deuteronomy 14 verses 27 to 29 only.  That tithe was for helping the poor, of which it appears that the Levites were expected to be a part of.   At the times in which Israel was a nation, the budget for the country also came out of the tithes.  By the time Jesus came to earth, the Jewish people had greater hardship, as, in addition to these tithes, the Roman Empire had more layers of taxation upon conquered peoples.  Further, the rabbis had made a rule, not based on any scripture that Jewish people were not to give more than 40% of their increase.  This was because of the influence of Roman culture, in which certain wealthy persons were paying for large public works projects to gain favor with the people, so as to be able to gain public office with the Empire.  These public works projects could be likened to some of the earliest political advertising in history.  Although this might look good to us today, given how we are barraged with annoying and twisted political ads today, the rabbis saw it as a danger to the people. 

            When Jesus died on the cross, the early believers understood His death as the ultimate sacrifice which fulfilled the Old Covenant, including the laws about tithes.  This is confirmed in Acts 15 verses 23 to 29, where the apostles and elders write a letter to define to the early church what parts of the Law were to be carried over into the church. Verse 29 says, “that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”  The question they were writing to settle was about circumcision.  Tithing wasn’t even an issue.

            The church gave generously to help spread the message of Jesus, and to help others, both fellow believers and neighbors who were not.  The church did not have buildings.  Leadership was by God’s leadership gifts. 

            Saul’s parents or further ancestors were apparently sufficiently wealthy to purchase Roman citizenship.  When he became a Pharisee, it was a rule that Pharisees had to learn a trade, as in the past, Levites had a difficult time when large amounts of Israelites turned away from God and then stopped tithing.  When Saul had the miraculous experience that brought him from persecuting the church to speaking for faith in Jesus, became Paul, grew in faith, and started on missionary journeys, having the trade of making tents was handy for supporting himself far from his home church.  When Jesus said in Matthew 10 verse 10 that “a worker is worthy of his food,” that was not a license for a church to have a payroll, but that the believers had a responsibility to financially help those who were going to take the message of Jesus where it had not been heard, as those cultures might be so different that being able to make a living there with skills obtained in their home culture may be difficult to impossible.  Jesus commended the widow in Matthew 12 verses 41 to 44 who gave generously out of her poverty, as opposed to those who gave much more out of their abundance.

            The teaching of one 10% tithe came back into the church in the 8^th century, when the Catholic Church began acquiring land in northern Europe, where 10% of a year’s crop was the traditional land rent.  The local leaders, who at that time were trained in ritual, but not necessarily on understanding scripture, then got it confused with the Old Testament writings.  Whether that was an honest mistake or not is beyond our reach.  Possibly this did not disappear in the Reformation due to the church leaders not being prepared as Paul was to earn a secular living.  Today, in traditional churches, 85% of offerings go to building costs and payroll alone, and only two one-hundredths of 1% go to sending the message of Jesus where there is absolutely no Christian teaching going on. Interestingly, we are hearing a great move of people coming to faith in Jesus in the Marxist, Buddhist, and Islamic lands where the believers are underground like the believers we read about in the New Testament, but we, with all our money, buildings, marketing, and programs see minimal.

            I can be reached at simplechurchminute@yahoo.com or 757-xxx-xxxx.  If you wish to review what I just said, a transcript is posted at tevyebird.blogspot.com, dated September 27, 2011.  You can find out more about believers being the church without buildings and corporations in this area at www.hrscn.org .

            Much of the reference information about the three tithes is at the end of the blog of September 25, 2011 (the immediately previous one).

            The information about the middle ages return of the tithe can be found in George Barna and Frank Viola, Pagan Christianity.

            The .02% statistic comes from Steven S. Lyzenga, ASSESSING THE STATE OF SIMPLE CHURCHES IN THE USA  REGARDING RELEASING RESOURCES TOWARD FINISHING THE GREAT COMMISSION.

http://house2harvest.org/docs/Simple_Churches_Releasing_Resources_S_Lyzenga.pdf

2067--What if someone...(five minute version)

            Almost everything I have written for the Simple Church Minute commentaries come from the writings of persons who have written notable things about simple/organic/ simple church.  A couple more have come from my own experiences.  Only one of these commentaries, so far, comes from an idea from a brother who is functioning significantly and creatively inside the institutional system.  This idea comes from Glen Davis, an Assembly of God pastor working on the campus of Stanford University (glenandpaula.com/wordpress).  This came from a talk I heard him give in 1998.  I never heard anyone say this before, I haven’t heard anyone say this afterword, except for my repeating Glen’s idea.  It doesn’t directly have anything to do with organic church, except for it being connected with dealing with real life, as opposed to some dream of how believers should react to the world around us.

2067—What if someone asks you a question that you don’t know the answer to?

            My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute.  Let us say you are in a conversation with a person who is not a believer, and that person asks you a question you do not know the answer to.  What should you say?  This is a matter of heart, not knowledge, on both yours and the other person’s part.

First, there are questions of the trivial variety, like “Can God create a stone He cannot lift?”  Philosophers through the ages, and in mathematics, Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem address this, but it isn’t a serious question for someone seeking truth, it’s a parlor game.  That God is in the sentence is irrelevant; it has to do with the use of positive and negative terms in a certain alignment, and that, in turn, differs in different languages.

            Now, for relevant questions.  First, this situation, for you, has to do with obedience to Jesus.  If you don’t know the answer to a question, tell the person, “I don’t know, but I’ll find out.” Now, at this point, you have given your word as a matter of desiring to honor Jesus.  This matter is, for you, even more a matter between you and God than it is between this other person and yourself, or that person and God.  Next, you need to be connected to mature believers who are willing to struggle with the difficult situations of this life, and not give cleaver answers that pass the buck.  What do I mean by this?  Here’s an example.  I’ve indicated in other spots that I have come to see that New Covenant believers are to be generous, but the tithe was in the Old Covenant only.  If I didn’t, then “Should a believer tithe on the net or gross of one’s paycheck?” would be a valid question.  An answer I have heard given by speakers more than once, “Do you want a net blessing or gross blessing?” may be humorous, but it is not an answer, much less an honest, thoughtful answer of a mature believer, which that speaker is implying that he or she is, one that cares to truly see other believers grow in faith.  I do not care what titles or degrees that person has or does not have—avoiding honest questions is irresponsible before Jesus with being in a position of leading others towards maturity of faith.  If possible, and it is in this culture, we all need to be associated with mature believers that will assist us with these honest answers to honest questions, so we all may grow up to do the same, and, no matter how young one is spiritually, one should desire, as part of honoring Jesus with one’s life, to be that mature believer that assists the next generation.  Might I suggest that part of that is being around spiritual leaders that desire and expect each of us to grow to a level of responsibility in living for Jesus and seeing those around us grow in faith that is equal or higher than where that leader is at.  That is far better done in one on one conversations, not generalized lectures.  There are supposed leaders today who do not want that, either because intentionally or subliminally, they are protecting their position or paycheck, or ego or that just possibly they don’t believe that, if God truly created the universe, that everything in the universe does fit together and make sense-- albeit not in a manner that can be explained in 25 words or less--or even 25 minutes or less. 

            Lastly, there are some questions that God has not told us the answer to.  Francis Schaeffer wrote that God has, in giving us the Bible the way He did, communicated to us truly, but not exhaustively.  That means the Bible tells us that God created the heavens and the earth, and that, in turn, means that God understood before creation all the subatomic small to astrophysical large processes it takes to have this universe work.  I believe it takes less faith to believe the God of the Bible than it takes to believe it happened by a one over one times 10 to the one hundred second power chance. On the opposite side, a Bible doesn’t replace a Chilton’s manual if you need to bleed the brakes on your car, although the whole process works on principles God ordained for this universe.   

            At the point that you have found out the answer, or whether there is none, and you have communicated that, you are not responsible for the other person being satisfied with the answer. You are responsible to live to honor Jesus. We must understand that the Holy Spirit works both through our minds and our spirits, and He can and sometimes does speak to a person through the intellectually unsatisfying answer.  All of us believers have wondered why God didn’t tell us something, and then did tell us some of the things He did in the Old Testament. 

             You can communicate with me at simplechurchminute@yahoo.com or 757-735-xxxx.  To read over what I just said, and some additional information on this subject, I have it posted on my blog, tevyebird.blogspot.com, on the post dated September 7, 2011. For more info about organic churches in this area, visit www.hrscn.org

            I have been a believer since 1968, and I feel that I have desired, albeit imperfectly, to serve Jesus with all that is in me, including my mind.  I have spent some of my life as a believer in a Calvinistic tradition, which tends to overemphasize intellectualism. I have spent part of my life in the charismatic-Pentecostal tradition, which in some places does the opposite.  During the winter of 2011, I ran into the fact that the word in Acts 19 that is translated “assembly”, referring to the mob protesting the work of Paul in Ephesus was “ekklesia”, which in all other places in the New Testament is translated “church.”  As the mob was not just non-believers, but was opposed to Paul’s work, and was supporting the idol makers in Ephesus, and the idols were for the temple of Diana, a fertility (i.e. sex) cult, the question occurred to me, “were the idols the idol makers were making what we, in this culture, would call pornographic?”  I looked at a number of books, and couldn’t find any comment on this.  I already knew that to not be surprising, as all kinds of Christian writers over the centuries have been less forthcoming on the subject of sexuality as God is.  I called a man I know in this area that has had seminary training and has been and still is involved in foreign missionary work.  After a few days, he directed me to some resources which, to my surprise, indicate that, as much as one might expect the answer to be “yes,” and in spite of the archeology done in the ancient Greek world, the answer to my specific question, at this time is, we don’t know for certain. 

2010--comparing apples to apples

            This is another five minute commentary for radio, as are most of my posts.  This one, at this time, I feel is kind of special.  I feel that I need an introduction commentary, as is #28 in the two minute commentaries I posted in December, 2010.  With this one, I began by thinking that, as I have examined the critique the ideas behind organic church, that most come down to the misunderstanding rampant in the western world as to what the words “church, pastor, preach, tithe, and communion” mean.  Below, I tie this to an experience I had as a teen, which years later, I realized spoke to a general principle going on in institutional churches today.

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2010—comparing apples to apples

            My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute.  When we make a choice in the world, a reasonable person would like to make an apples to apples comparison.  When we go to a grocery store, there are a number of dish detergents on the shelf.  We might choose one by price, or color, or fragrance, or how the package looks on your shelf, or how it affects one’s hands or if they give a nickel to a favored charity, or you could have ordered some via Amway a couple of weeks ago, or bought a book on chemistry and made it yourself.  All these choices have pluses and minuses.  In making comparisons in the real world, as opposed to, say, politics, one needs to compare apples to apples.  Some of those companies wish to make the comparison as easy as possible, particularly with the strategy of offering the lowest price.  The company offering the product at the highest price is attempting to do something to differentiate themselves such that whatever that unique thing is will make you ignore the high price.  In autos, for instance, the companies wish to put so many optional features on a car that you can’t find two identical cars to compare to.

            The reason I bring this up is to present the following question.  Think of the following words:  church, pastor, preach, tithe, communion.  When you hear that word, or read that word or read about that concept in the Bible, are you thinking of the same thing that the writer of scripture was talking about when he was writing it?  Now some might say that that is an unfair question, in that we know that to some minor degree, according to our experiences, we all see the words we use everyday in a very slightly different nuance.  I’m not talking about that.  I’m asking, do we understand these words apples to apples similar or apples to pineapples different?  When Paul wrote the Koine Greek word ekklesia, how similar is that word in how the original receivers of his letters understand it in comparison to our modern English word church, which also includes aspects you have picked up from your experience that you’ve never heard said.

            Let me give you an example from my life.  My parents were honest, moral people, if you asked them, they would have said they believed in God, but I doubt ever really thought through what that meant.  When I was 8, they started having me go to Sunday School at a church a couple of miles away (I lived in a rural area).  When I was 15, I came to faith in Jesus, just a few weeks after the elderly pastor of that church passed away.  About a year later, the new pastor also came to teach the high school class I was in, and asked how many people believed doctrine X, which that church held one view of, and most churches held an opposite view of.  I’d never considered the idea one way or another, and wasn’t sure, although I knew the church’s stand, so, in a show of hands, I stuck my hand out sideways and waved by wrist to indicate that I wasn’t sure.  I was sitting in a front row, and later learned that no one else raised their hand, where raising their hand indicated agreement with the official position.  Given that, the pastor taught about this doctrine for four weeks, and then asked that question again.  This time, no one, including myself, raised their hand.  What was the pastor to do—now no one agrees with that denomination’s position?  You can’t toss everyone out—you need a salary.  The answer is:  don’t talk about it one way or another.

            The thing I am getting at is that what Paul and the other writers of the New Testament, and the apostles taught during the days of the early church, when faith in Jesus spread like wildfire, and also what we have seen in parts of the world where the government or a social group is overtly attempting to persecute faith in Jesus, but faith has been spreading like wildfire, was connected to what Jesus taught the disciples, who in turn taught the early church.  We, here in the West, with all of our money and marketing ideas and media teaching are not seeing people come to faith in Jesus in an exceptional way, and may even be seeing a harvest of criticism and mockery from unbelievers that aren’t always undeserved.  I am suggesting that some of these key words in the Bible have, sometimes unintentionally, sometimes intentionally by both well meaning persons and those who were not, have morphed in meaning so significantly that we are not reading our Bibles correctly, that is, we are reading the correct word, insofar as translating the word from Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic to English, but we are connecting an incorrect definition to it, as various people in history have leaned on society in ways that have changed how we understand a word, and we’ve added and deleted to the word by what we’ve seen but no one has ever overtly explained.  My time today is done, but this series is looking at a variety of specific instances.

          You can contact me at simplechurchminute@yahoo.com  or 757-735-xxxx.  Hearing a talk goes really quickly; if you would like to see a transcript of what I just said, I have it posted on my blog, tevyebird.blogspot.com, dated September 1, 2011.  For more information about organic worship in this area, visit www.hrscn.org.

            Almost nothing that I say in these commentaries are my original ideas, but I am putting out in the public because these are ideas spoken of in some evangelical seminaries, and among certain groups of believers in Jesus, but are quite invisible to many believers who are sincerely desiring to follow Jesus, and who are plugged into what is being said and sung in Christian pop culture.  Two books which are an excellent introduction to what will be said in these commentaries are:

George Barna & Frank Viola, Pagan Christianity.

Wolfgang Simson, Houses that Change the World

Many Christian bookstores will not have these in stock.  Many authors sell their works on their websites, and I have not had any problem finding anything I have been looking for on amazon.com.

2110--three tithes

One of the odd things about a blog is how everything is from newest to oldest, so I need to repeat some things I've previously written.  Back in December, 2010, I released scripts of 2 minute commentaries written for radio on subjects that some of us believers in Jesus would maintain have not been dealt with properly by the organizational church in our culture.  Currently, I have been making 1 minute and five minute versions of those, as, when I have the cash to run these on radio, those are time frames that fit stations I might deal with.

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            My name is Tom.  This is Simple Church Minute.  In the Old Covenant, the children of Israel were commanded to give two tithes for certain, and probably a third, every third year tithe.   The first tithe, spoken of in Leviticus 27 and Numbers 18, was for the support of the Levites, the tribe of Israel who was not given land so that they could be responsible for worship among the people.  The next tithe, the festival tithe, was for celebrating Passover and the Feast of Tabernacles, details of which appear in Deuteronomy chapters 12, 14, and 16.  Many, but apparently not all, who are familiar with these details understand there to also be a third, every third year tithe, for the poor and the Levites, which is based on Deuteronomy 14 verses 28 and 29.  When Israel was an ancient nation, the operating budget of the nation also appears to have come from the tithes, so this may not seem so excessive, although when it was subject to another nation, such as they were in the days of Jesus, when Rome collected their taxes additionally, it was certainly more onerous.  These tithes were part of the Old Covenant Law, or Torah, which we believers in Jesus understand to have been fulfilled by Jesus’ death on the cross.

          In Acts 15 verses 1 to 29, when the mainly non-ethnically Jewish believers asked the apostles and elders in Jerusalem, after being visited by persons who were teaching that the Old Testament law about circumcision was still to be obeyed, the apostles and elders, led by James, wrote them to abstain from food offered to idols, animals which were strangled, from drinking blood, and sexual immorality.  There was nothing there about paying tithes.  The New Covenant includes the virtue of being generous.  To this effect, for believers earning a superior income, 10%, 20%, maybe even 50%, may not be generous, and for those who are poor, anything is. First Timothy 6 verses 17 to 19 are appropriate.

          Further, First Timothy 3 verses 3 to 8 and chapter 6 verse 9 teach us that a qualification of elders, deacons, and teachers, which were not organizational appointments, but positions of experience and gifting, was that they were not to be greedy. We, in our culture, have an extremely distorted idea of wealth, as most of us have more material possessions and comforts than the extremely wealthy and royals of all previous generations and many current ones, although our culture’s expenses are greater, also.

          On the opposing side, nowhere in the New Testament have we been directed to spend money on buildings and support of local leadership.  The main example in the New Testament is Paul, who had a skill to support himself during the main part of his missionary journeys.  One liability of the church today in the west is occupational leaders whose only skill is theology, and avoid certain teachings of the Word in concern for their job and family.

          You can find out more about simple worship of Jesus locally at www.hrscn.org, and also at www.simplechurch.com. You can contact me at _______.  If you wish I could repeat what I said, a transcript of this with footnotes is at tevyebird.blogspot.com, dated July 17, 2011.

          I used the breakdown of the three tithes from www.biblestudy.org/belief/tithe-in-the-bible/three-tithes-of-israel.html.  As New Covenant believers are saved by faith in Jesus, not by obeying the Old Covenant Law/instructions, I used this as a simple explanation of the three tithes, and am in no way even wishing to quibble about whether a given Old Testament scripture refers to one tithe or the other; I brought this up as a matter of history, as it is irrelevant to following Jesus, except for it being a historical precursor, and that in the Middle Ages the term got dragged into faith in Jesus in error.  Frank Viola and George Barna’s Pagan Christianity, in chapter 8, p. 171-185, covers the historical detail on this subject with copious footnotes.

2001--on tithing and giving

            My name is Tom, this is simple church minute.  One can easily find in most Bible commentaries and dictionaries that in the Old Covenant days, there were clearly two tithes for certain, and possibly a third.  One was for the support of the Levites, who, unlike the other eleven tribes, did not have land, but whose job was to direct the worship of the Lord for all of Israel. Key Bible verses about this tithe are Leviticus 27 verses 30 to 33 and Numbers 18 verses 26 to 32. Another tithe was to be used for festivals. Key verses for this are Numbers 18 verses 20 to 26, Deuteronomy 12 verses 1 to 19, and Deuteronomy 14 verses 22 to 26.  The third tithe was either every third year, or a third of a tithe every year, or 3 of 7 years of Sabbath years, its not clear from our current vantage point.  If there is a third tithe, the key verses are Deuteronomy 14 verses 27 to 29 and Deuteronomy 26 verses 12 to 15. It was for helping the poor, of which it seems that the Levites were a part of.  When Israel was a nation, the budget of the nation came out of the tithes.  By the time of Jesus, the rabbis had made a rule, not found in scripture, that the Jews were not to give more than 40%, because rich Romans were spending large amounts of personal fortunes on public works projects as political advertising to get into the Empire’s public offices.  When Jesus died on the cross, the early church understood His death as the ultimate sacrifice that fulfilled the Old Covenant.  The early church gave generously to help spread the message of Jesus, help other believers, and help those in need nearby.  They did not have buildings, and leadership was by God’s leadership gifts. It needs to be noted that in Acts 15 verses 22 to 29, where the leaders of the church in Jerusalem meet to guide the early church as to what of the Old Covenant Law believers were still to follow, tithing is not mentioned.  Saul’s parents were apparently wealthy, as he was a citizen, and his parents or previous ancestors, being from Tarsus, almost assuredly purchased their citizenship.  When he became a Pharisee, it was a rule that Pharisees had to learn a trade to support themselves, because Levites in the past had a difficult time getting by when large amounts of Israel fell away from God and didn’t tithe.  When Saul came to follow Jesus, grew in faith, and started on his missionary journeys, he had the trade of tent making to support himself with.  When Jesus said “a worker is worth his keep” in Matthew, that was not license for churches to have a payroll, but he was specifically indicating that the those who would receive teaching and leadership had a responsibility to support brothers and sisters who went to bring the message of Jesus. This is particularly true when they go to places so culturally different that being able to make a living with their skills was unclear to impossible.  Jesus commended the widow in Matthew 12 verses 41 to 44 for giving a little out of little or no income, as opposed to those who gave much larger amounts out of their abundance.

          The teaching of a 10% tithe came back into the church in the 8^th century, when the Catholic Church started owning land in northern Europe, where 10% of a year’s crop was the traditional land rent.  The local leaders, who at that time were trained in performing ritual, but not necessarily understanding scripture, then got it confused with the Old Testament writings.  Whether that was an honest mistake or not is beyond our reach.  Possibly this did not get cleared up in the Protestant Reformation or later due to church leaders not being as prepared as Paul was to earn a secular living.  Today, in traditional churches, 85% of offerings go to building costs and payroll alone.  Interestingly, we see little growth in the number of believers in the free world, and a great move of coming to faith in Jesus in the Marxist, Buddhist, and Muslim lands where such expenditures are usually impossible.

          You can find out more about believers in this area worshipping without corporations and buildings, and with believers committed to building up each other at www.hrscn.org.   I can be reached at (at the time of this post, I am anticipating a change in phone number).  If you wish to review what I said, a transcript is on my blog, tevyebird.blogspot.com, dated May 28, 2011.

On Roman political advertising--could it be helpful today?

            A few weeks ago, while researching a topic, I ran into a fact that I had not previously.  I was already aware that, under the Old Testament law, there were clearly two tithes upon b’nai yesrael, and possibly there was a third, voluntary, one-third of a tithe, or tithe every third year, or, in other words, 20% or 23 1/3%.  What I just recently learned was that, in Jesus’ day, the rabbis had decreed a limit that one was not to give more than 40% of one’s income.  The reason for this was that they were in the Roman Empire, and an early form of political advertising in Rome was for a person who wished to gain public office to give large sums to pay for public works projects.

            As much as I must be critical of things the Empire did which has had a lasting, unscriptural effect upon the believers of Jesus, maybe they had a useful idea.  Given the problems with the U.S. and local governments are having with paying for things that they are expected to cover, we would be better off if the laws and regulations of the country could be changed such that it would be to the benefit of candidates to, instead of spending huge amounts of money to besiege those of us not running with large amounts of advertising consisting of obvious pieces of half-truths and twisted logic, spend that money on things we all need.  I can just picture the interstates and other major roads named for the candidates in the last election in trade for some of that money spent to irritate everyone instead going to maintaining those roads.  Yes, I know, the tv and radio stations are complaining having to sell those political ads all the way to the bank.  As with most obvious ideas, it is too simple and beneficial to have any chance.

            This week, my family is doing the Neilsen book thing.  I, as many males, am a inveterate channel flipper.  Further, I did more physical work today than I have in weeks, so I was tired in the evening.  I happened to turn to JCTV music videos this evening, and saw a group called Rend Collective Experience, who have a CD named Organic Family Hymnal.  Since I began being involved in HC/SC, the back of my mind’s eye has been watching for references to organic church.  After doing a little tracing the group on the net, I don’t know their intent in the use of the word “organic”, although, as they are from Northern Ireland, I know that the church is in a culturally different situation.  Either way, their music is different in a good way, as it hasn’t been processed to fit what the marketing people see as a trend.  One can find out more about their music at www.rendcollectiveexperience.com.

Simple Church Minute 68--How complicated guessing whether someone was tithing would be

68—How complicated guessing whether someone was tithing would be

My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute

            On another day, I have spoken about why physical tithing money is not part of the New Covenant, replaced by a believer desiring to give all of one’s life to honoring Jesus. I might say that if 10%  is truly sacrificial to you and you find it a personal goal the  Holy Spirit is allowing you to be at peace about at this time, then that’s what you should be doing.

            Some organizations hold it as a mark of spirituality—if you don’t give 10%, you cannot do certain responsibilities.  If they don’t ask you to show paperwork, and my understanding is that that is a little overt, how would one know?  In the time of Jesus, weighing out 20% of your crop wasn’t all that complicated.  In most work in our culture, you don’t know what another person beside you doing the same job is making, and it’s a big rule that you don’t talk about it.  Further, here in the U.S., we have withholding out of one’s check, and a roughly equivalent amount that doesn’t appear, but goes toward Social Security, which in theory you’ll get back someday if you live long enough.  Which number would you figure yours on?  The only answer I’ve heard on that has been a joke, “Which do you want, a gross blessing or a net blessing?”  For people with various discounted benefits, which are based on future events, the calculation becomes impossible.

            The answer is not attempting to figure 10 or 20 or 23 1/3 percent, but giving all to follow Jesus in every way we can.  If you make so little that you can’t give anything, no human needs to look over anyone’s shoulder.  For the believer, the Holy Spirit can convict in a person’s heart better than any person.  Conversely, if you make a lot, 10 or 20 or 23 1/3 percent isn’t a true sacrifice.  It is wrong for any leader to play on people’s minds about money, and he or she needs to repent.  Besides, the costs of buildings, payrolls, and anything not specifically directed by the Holy Spirit is not of God.

            You can email me at simplechurchminute@gmail.com. For more info about organic church*, visit http://www.simplechurch.com/ or locally at (local website).

On the recording, at this time, it says, “house churches.”  While that phrasing is OK, to say “organic church” is better.  I comment on that in blip 94.

Simple Church Minute 43--Tithe (Part Two)

THIS IS AT A FAST PACE

43—Tithe—Part Two

My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute.

            Yesterday, I mentioned that the Old Covenant tithe was really 20 or 23 1/3 percent, and that what God did in the physical realm with God’s people in the Old Testament is an analogy to what He is doing in the spiritual realm in the New Covenant, AND at a great level of intensity, as this is a better covenant.

            Therefore, consider this.  The biblical tithe was never 10 percent of anyone’s money, and it isn’t 20 or 23 1/3 percent today.  We believers are all kings and priests, able to present petitions to God without an intermediary.  The priests were the ones to receive tithes, and supported them so they could make sacrifices to God.  Jesus, though, was the perfect sacrifice—we don’t have to do any butchering on altars, anymore.

            The book of Hebrews was written toward Jewish New Covenant believers to, among other things, clarify this.  Chapter 10 verse 24 says, “And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works.”  Our tithe in not any longer giving some of our money, but giving all of our everything to loving and honoring Jesus.  The whole book of Hebrews ties this all together.  Why do churches teach 10% is required?  It comes out of land rental in Europe in the 8^th century, and somehow it got confused and made into secular law, and stuck with traditional churches even through the Reformation.  Also, it takes a lot to support all these buildings and all the people in occupational ministry, which in this case includes the janitor, the secretary, everyone on the payroll.  Many quote Malachi 3 verse 16, which says bring the tithe into the storehouse, but it isn’t being stored, it is supporting missionaries only a little.  In the current economic recession, if it had been stored, people, both believers and non-, could have been helped, but in many institutional churches, people have had to be laid off, mortgages renegotiated.  You, as a believer, are accountable to God for what you have done being used to God’s glory, be it time, talent, or money.

            You can email me at simplechurchminute@gmail.com.  For more info on organic church*, visit http://www.simplechurch.com/ or locally at (local website).

On the recording, at this time, it says, “house churches.”  While that phrasing is OK, to say “organic church” is better.  I comment on that in blip 94.

Simple Church Minute 42--Tithe (Part One)

42—Tithe—Part One

My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute.

            Today, I’m going to share with you an idea that, if this is the first time you have heard it, you’re going to say, “that can’t be’” but I challenge you to compare it to scripture.

            Most churches I know of teach the concept of tithing, and teach that is means to give the first ten percent.  Some organized churches keep records and disallow a person for leadership unless they are giving 10% of what they think that person is making.  I could fill the next two minutes with how complicated making that estimate is in our society, but that is another story.

            If one does a little research in a reference work by a believing scholar, one will find that, in the Old Testament days, there were clearly two tithes, and there may have been a voluntary, every third year tithe, therefore, 20 percent for sure, and maybe 23 1/3%.  The money supported the tabernacle, the Levites, one of Israel’s 12 tribes, who were to conduct worship, and to operate the government of Israel at times when they were a country.  Of course, by far, most of the chosen people became so by birth, not faith, so there was a large amount of Israel ignored their duty.

            Some of you may have heard this concept, some not.  God, in the Old Covenant, which ran from God making a covenant with Abraham, to Jesus fulfilling the covenant, did physical things with the physical chosen people, the Jews, not just as lessons for them, but also as an analogy for the spiritual God’s people of the New Covenant, who would live by the Holy Spirit inside us.  We, by living to honor Jesus, by the work of the Holy Spirit, allow the Spirit to speak to not-yet-Christians that they may repent and follow in the life and practice of glorifying Jesus.  More on this idea tomorrow.

            You can email me at simplechurchminute@gmail.com.  For more info on organic church*, visit http://www.simplechurch.com/ or locally at (local website).

On the recording, at this time, it says, “house churches.”  While that phrasing is OK, to say “organic church” is better.  I comment on that in blip 94.

Simple Church Minute 16--history of the tithe in New Testament days

16—history of the tithe in NT days

NOTE:  I originally wrote a segment for each of the 61 points Frank Viola and George Barna make in their book, Pagan Christianity, about traditions in the institutional church not based on scripture.  After writing it, I chose to not include this segment merely as I felt that in wouldn’t be an interesting radio commentary.

My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute

            Question: If Bible scholars know there were two or three tithes in the Old Covenant, how did the idea of one 10% tithe get started in the church?

            Answer:  In the early church, there weren’t formal organizations, leadership offices, salaried persons or buildings, so money was only collected for special needs, like Paul’s collection for the church in Jerusalem, which had an unusually large amount of elderly people.  One of the outstanding testimonies of the early church was how generous they were with the poor and needy.  There is one 3^rd century document recommending financial support of clergy and connecting it to the practice of the Levites, but it was another century later before clergy getting paid was even slightly common.  By then, the Roman Empire had gotten involved in the church, and payment was not widespread until the 8^th century.

            Strangely, the 10% tithe idea came from secular government.  In the 7^th and 8^th centuries, 10% of the crop was the standard payment to a landlord for renting his land for a season.  About that time, the Catholic church got involved in land ownership, with the clergy collecting land rent.  Over time, the idea slid into the church, and the payment of tithe to the church became secular law in parts of Europe.  By the 10^th century, 10% as standard land rent disappeared.

            One further problem with this legalism is that giving 10% is no problem to a well off person, and an extreme burden on the poor.  Some institutional churches have made 10% giving a litmus test for discipleship.  Jesus, in Luke 21 verses 1 to 4 seems to disagree.  Lordship can be judged by the Holy Spirit looking at your spirit, not any outward act.

            You…