2012--eternal purpose

In today's edition of "Simple Church Minute", the broadcast said that the script appears at September 11, 2011.  Last night, in reviewing my writing, I realized that I made some corrections way back at the time of the posting, and, as such, it moved to September 18.  Anyway, given that it is usually easiest to have it on today's date, I have reposted it today.
While you are here, I will be reviewing Watchman Nee's "What Shall This Man Do?" on Thursday.
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2012—eternal purpose

My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute. Milt Rodriguez, in his blog entry for July 6, 2011, told an extremely short story, of which I quote:

A friend recently told me that the eternal purpose of God was so vast that it was difficult to grasp and even more difficult to explain. I told him that I agreed. He also said that it’s very difficult to put into one sentence. I also agreed with that, however, after thinking about this later, I decided to take on the challenge. So here is my contribution of consolidating the eternal purpose into one sentence:

“God’s eternal purpose is that the fullness of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, would be displayed and expressed visibly through a vessel that would be a Family/House for the Father, a Bride/Body for the Son, and a Temple for the Holy Spirit.”

What in the world does that mean? Most believers have never heard anyone overtly speak on this subject—God’s eternal purpose. Implicitly, most of us who have been part of evangelical or fundamentalist or Bible-believing (choose you favorite phrase) church understand that the thing to do that is most emphasized is wishing other persons to come to faith in Jesus, that is, evangelism. If I point it out, it is obvious, that in that part of time previous to Genesis 3, the story of the fall, there was no place for evangelism in the whole universe. At the other end, beginning at Revelation 21, the final judgment, there will once again be a time where there will be no place for evangelism.

Now, just for a moment, glance at what things would look like from a liberal progressive church position. There, doing good is the emphasis. Once again, before Genesis 3, there is no place for that, as sin had not entered the human race, and some period of time before that, the fall of Lucifer that is told us in Ezekiel 28. On the other end, after the judgment in Revelation 21, there once again will be no room for doing good, because sin will have been banished. Therefore, neither of those things can possibly God’s eternal purpose.

Let me go over those items in the Rodriguez quote. God wants the fullness of Jesus displayed. That was the plan before the creation of the universe. How do we know this? Numbers 23:19 says, “God is not a man that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.” If we follow Jesus, then we have to take God’s word that what he has told us in the Bible was what he meant to tell us. He tells us that he wants a family. The chosen people of the Old Covenant, were a physical, and imperfect, type of a New Covenant chosen people that are a new creation by faith, a people that deep in our hearts want to be his chosen people. We also are God’s house. John, in Revelation 21 verse 3 tells us, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.” On this idea, Frank Viola, in his book, “From Eternity to Here”, wrote,

“John’s climatic vision in Revelation 21 and 22 gives us an intriguing window into the ultimacy of God’s house. Therein we discover that the house is a city. As we read further, we discover that the city is also a bride, and that the bride is also a dwelling place, and that the dwelling place is also a wife, and that the wife is also a temple, and that the temple is also a garden. All are graphic, mind-grabbing images of the same reality. All speak of God’s ultimate purpose.”*

God’s ultimate purpose is that temple of the Holy Spirit from 1 Corinthians 6 verse 19, that bride of Christ from John 3 verse 29, the body of Christ from 1 Corinthians 12 verse 27, that family of God from Galatians 6 verse 10, that house of God from Hebrews 3 verse 6. That all is us, the saved, the believers in Jesus, who wish to desire to do His will in everything. Good works are good, communicating the message of Jesus’ love for us is good, it is part of how we desire to honor God, but there is a time coming that those things will be irrelevant, and God’s plan in some way accounts for a time that we only can understand at this point in time quite dimly, and trying to hold onto any chaff that the wind and fire of the Holy Spirit is blowing and burning away is counterproductive.

I can be reached by email at simplechurchminute@yahoo.com or at 757-735-3639. What I just said went fast; to read what I just said, I have it posted on my blog, tevyebird.blogspot.com, with additional information, posted to September 18, 2011. To find out more about simple church on a national and international scale, visit www.simplechurch.com and, for this area, at www.hrscn.org.

Milt Rodriguez quote from his blog, miltrodriguez.wordpress.com, from 7/6/2011. Frank Viola quote from his book, From Eternity to Here (Colorado Springs, CO: David C. Cook, 2009) p. 213-214. This book is an excellent, thorough examination of this subject. Frank has additional resources at his website www.ptmin.org, and his blog is www.frankviola.org.

Eternal Purpose

Today's Simple Church Minute broadcast was on the subject of God's Eternal Purpose.  In reviewing the recording, I see that at the end, I said that is was posted on September 11, 2011.  I actually posted it on September 18, 2011, so it is better that I have reposted it today.

   

 

          I have been attempting to include quotations from a variety of persons writing on simple/organic/house church, and this rewrite turns out to allow me to add quotations from two prolific writers on this subject, Milt Rodriguez and Frank Viola.  In spite of most of these blogs being heavily built on the research from George Barna and Frank Viola’s book, Pagan Christianity, I had not put an actual quotation in any of the commentaries, heretofore.

2012—eternal purpose

            My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute.  Milt Rodriguez, in his blog entry for July 6, 2011, told an extremely short story, of which I quote:

            A friend recently told me that the eternal purpose of God was so vast that it was difficult to grasp and even more difficult to explain.  I told him that I agreed.  He also said that it’s very difficult to put into one sentence.  I also agreed with that, however, after thinking about this later, I decided to take on the challenge.  So here is my contribution of consolidating the eternal purpose into one sentence:

            “God’s eternal purpose is that the fullness of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, would be displayed and expressed visibly through a vessel that would be a Family/House for the Father, a Bride/Body for the Son, and a Temple for the Holy Spirit.”

 

            What in the world does that mean?  Most believers have never heard anyone overtly speak on this subject—God’s eternal purpose.  Implicitly, most of us who have been part of evangelical or fundamentalist or Bible-believing (choose you favorite phrase) church understand that the thing to do that is most emphasized is wishing other persons to come to faith in Jesus, that is, evangelism.  If I point it out, it is obvious, that in that part of time previous to Genesis 3, the story of the fall, there was no place for evangelism in the whole universe.  At the other end, beginning at Revelation 21, the final judgment, there will once again be a time where there will be no place for evangelism.

            Now, just for a moment, glance at what things would look like from a liberal progressive church position.  There, doing good is the emphasis.  Once again, before Genesis 3, there is no place for that, as sin had not entered the human race, and some period of time before that, the fall of Lucifer that is told us in Ezekiel 28.  On the other end, after the judgment in Revelation 21, there once again will be no room for doing good, because sin will have been banished.  Therefore, neither of those things can possibly God’s eternal purpose.

            Let me go over those items in the Rodriguez quote.  God wants the fullness of Jesus displayed.  That was the plan before the creation of the universe. How do we know this?  Numbers 23:19 says, “God is not a man that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.”  If we follow Jesus, then we have to take God’s word that what he has told us in the Bible was what he meant to tell us.  He tells us that he wants a family.  The chosen people of the Old Covenant, were a physical, and imperfect, type of a New Covenant chosen people that are a new creation by faith, a people that deep in our hearts want to be his chosen people.  We also are God’s house.  John, in Revelation 21 verse 3 tells us, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.”  On this idea, Frank Viola, in his book, “From Eternity to Here”, wrote,

            “John’s climatic vision in Revelation 21 and 22 gives us an intriguing window into the ultimacy of God’s house.  Therein we discover that the house is a city.  As we read further, we discover that the city is also a bride, and that the bride is also a dwelling place, and that the dwelling place is also a wife, and that the wife is also a temple, and that the temple is also a garden.  All are graphic, mind-grabbing images of the same reality.  All speak of God’s ultimate purpose.”*

            God’s ultimate purpose is that temple of the Holy Spirit from 1 Corinthians 6 verse 19, that bride of Christ from John 3 verse 29, the body of Christ from 1 Corinthians 12 verse 27, that family of God from Galatians 6 verse 10, that house of God from Hebrews 3 verse 6.  That all is us, the saved, the believers in Jesus, who wish to desire to do His will in everything.  Good works are good, communicating the message of Jesus’ love for us is good, it is part of how we desire to honor God, but there is a time coming that those things will be irrelevant, and God’s plan in some way accounts for a time that we only can understand at this point in time quite dimly, and trying to hold onto any chaff that the wind and fire of the Holy Spirit is blowing and burning away is counterproductive.

            I can be reached by email at simplechurchminute@yahoo.com or at 757-735-3639.. What I just said went fast; to read what I just said, I have it posted on my blog, tevyebird.blogspot.com, with additional information, posted to September 11, 2011.  To find out more about simple church on a national and international scale, visit www.simplechurch.com and, for this area, at www.hrscn.org.  

            Milt Rodriguez quote from his blog, miltrodriguez.wordpress.com, from 7/6/2011.  Frank Viola quote from his book, From Eternity to Here (Colorado Springs, CO: David C. Cook, 2009) p. 213-214.  This book is an excellent, thorough examination of this subject.  Frank has additional resources at his website www.ptmin.org, and his blog is www.frankviola.org.

2008--what Constantine did (revised)

                        This is a longer redo of something I wrote earlier—again. 

2008—what Constantine did

            My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute.  History tells us that Constantine, the Roman Emperor, claimed to have a conversion experience and, afterward, legalized the Christian faith early in the 4^th century A.D.  Did he actually come to faith in Jesus?  Any of us who are believers know that only God knows one’s heart, and that we all have failed to follow Him as we know we should have, but we are also well aware that, when we are not living in a dire persecution circumstance, there will be some people that will attempt to imitate being a believer for some purpose, and there are some who are just self deceived.  History does give us some insight into this question, because, being possibly the most politically powerful person in the world at that time, we have a supply of information recorded about his life. 

            First, we know that, after his conversion, he ordered two members of his family put to death.  Yes, it is possible that he actually had a justifiable reason for that, but, on the other hand, having someone meet death is an easier thing to do when you are a dictator.  Second, he ordered that the Christian faith become legal in the Roman Empire, but, he did not make the paganism that was the national belief illegal.  Instead, he gave the church things it did not have, such as buildings, special tax exempt status for the churches and the clergy—except that the church, unlike paganism and most other beliefs—didn’t have clergy.  Also, the churches and buildings were named after apostles, similar to the Roman pagan temples being named after the gods of Roman mythology.  That caused a run on orators quote converting unquote and taking the church organization leadership positions, which in a fairly short period of time saw the now official church take a look similar to the religions of the world.  For me, none of that has a look or feel of a person who truly came to faith in Jesus and sought out mature believers to help guide one’s spiritual growth.  It does have every look of dictator of a declining empire grasping at whatever it took to prevent the dictatorship from declining further.  Third, when Constantine died, his burial spot was made in the form of the sun.  One needs to think of Mithras, the Roman sun god—with the sun having twelve rays, with, at the end of each ray, a statue to represent one of the twelve disciples, with him buried in the middle, representing himself as the chief apostle.  Does that sound like a person with a good grasp of the teaching of Jesus, the apostles, and the early church and its leaders? 

            What does that have to do with us today?  Well, almost all traditional churches in the western world own or rent buildings, and the organizations have names.  One should notice that, in the New Testament, Paul and the other writers wrote to all the believers in a city, and also never wrote directly any leaders, but, as I mentioned, to everyone.  When we look at scripture, we see that 1 Corinthians 6 verses 19 and 20 tell us that we believers are the temple of the Holy Spirit, not any building. 

            When you have a building, you need someone to take care of it.  I am not referring to the janitor; I am referring to the person in charge of who is the janitor and everything else.  That person originally was called the bishop, then later elder, and then later, priest.  The Reformation recognized that the name priest was about 180 degrees theologically off track, and used the word pastor.  All those words appear in the Bible, but the meanings they have taken since Constantine are nothing like what they meant to the apostles and the persons they taught about following Jesus.  We, on the opposite side, have been insulated by centuries and what we have experienced from the proper definition of the words’ meanings.  Most of these problems have been impossible to see by those of us without graduate theological training because, if anyone can force any idea through two lifetimes of people, by the third generation people think that’s the way it’s always been. One can always believe that maybe a thing they don’t understand was explained one day when they weren’t around.  As we should know from politics—no, it was never explained.

            We could say that what has gone on must be still ok with God, because we see the Holy Spirit working through it.  One can say that God is gracious and works in spite of our imperfections.  We can also say quite clearly today that God is working powerfully in the underground church of cultures where the government or societal groups oppose the church, as was the case of the church in the New Testament days, and, as part of living under intense opposition, have not been able to do anything other than follow the forms that the apostles taught the early church, not as a matter of theological study, but according to what is practical for an underground group without financial or normal social resources.  This should indicate to us that the church must literally be a group of people who meet wherever, build up and care for each other, and become God’s supernatural family, and that the Holy Spirit is blessing those groups of believers in spite of any persecution in the form of seeing people coming to living faith.

          You can communicate with me by email at simplechurchminute@yahoo.com or by phone at 757-xxx-xxxx.  You can read what I just said, along with references behind what I said, at my blog, tevyebird.blogspot.com, on the entry dated September 21, 2011.  You can find out more about simple church in this area at www.hrscn.org.

            See George Barna and Frank Viola, Pagan Christianity, chapters 2 and 5, which, in turn, have dozens of historical footnotes to back up the statements that make, which I have referred to.

2012--eternal purpose (revised)

  

As with two days ago, I began to record one of these commentaries, and found that it was lacking when read, so I rewrote it.  Also, I have been attempting to include quotations from a variety of persons writing on simple/organic/house church, and this rewrite turns out to allow me to add a quotation from Frank Viola.  In spite of most of these blogs being heavily built on the research from George Barna and Frank Viola’s book, Pagan Christianity, I had not put an actual quotation in any of the commentaries, heretofore.

2012—eternal purpose

            My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute.  Milt Rodriguez, in his blog entry for July 6, 2011, told an extremely short story, of which I quote:

            A friend recently told me that the eternal purpose of God was so vast that it was difficult to grasp and even more difficult to explain.  I told him that I agreed.  He also said that it’s very difficult to put into one sentence.  I also agreed with that, however, after thinking about this later, I decided to take on the challenge.  So here is my contribution of consolidating the eternal purpose into one sentence:

            “God’s eternal purpose is that the fullness of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, would be displayed and expressed visibly through a vessel that would be a Family/House for the Father, a Bride/Body for the Son, and a Temple for the Holy Spirit.”

            What in the world does that mean?  Most believers have never heard anyone overtly speak on this subject—God’s eternal purpose.  Implicitly, most of us who have been part of evangelical or fundamentalist or Bible-believing (choose you favorite phrase) church understand that the thing to do that is most emphasized is wishing other persons to come to faith in Jesus, that is, evangelism.  If I point it out, it is obvious, that in that part of time previous to Genesis 3, the story of the fall, there was no place for evangelism in the whole universe.  At the other end, beginning at Revelation 21, the final judgment, there will once again be a time where there will be no place for evangelism.

            Now, just for a moment, glance at what things would look like from a liberal progressive church position.  There, doing good is the emphasis.  Once again, before Genesis 3, there is no place for that, as sin had not entered the human race, and some period of time before that, the fall of Lucifer that is told us in Ezekiel 28.  On the other end, after the judgment in Revelation 21, there once again will be no room for doing good, because sin will have been banished.  Therefore, neither of those things can possibly God’s eternal purpose.

            Let me go over those items in the Rodriguez quote.  God wants the fullness of Jesus displayed.  That was the plan before the creation of the universe. How do we know this?  Numbers 23:19 says, “God is not a man that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.”  If we follow Jesus, then we have to take God’s word that what he has told us in the Bible was what he meant to tell us.  He tells us that he wants a family.  The chosen people of the Old Covenant, were a physical, and imperfect, type of a New Covenant chosen people that are a new creation by faith, a people that deep in our hearts want to be his chosen people.  We also are God’s house.  John, in Revelation 21 verse 3 tells us, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.”  On this idea, Frank Viola, in his book, “From Eternity to Here”, wrote,

            “John’s climatic vision in Revelation 21 and 22 gives us an intriguing window into the ultimacy of God’s house.  Therein we discover that the house is a city.  As we read further, we discover that the city is also a bride, and that the bride is also a dwelling place, and that the dwelling place is also a wife, and that the wife is also a temple, and that the temple is also a garden.  All are graphic, mind-grabbing images of the same reality.  All speak of God’s ultimate purpose.”*

            God’s ultimate purpose is that temple of the Holy Spirit from 1 Corinthians 6 verse 19, that bride of Christ from John 3 verse 29, the body of Christ from 1 Corinthians 12 verse 27, that family of God from Galatians 6 verse 10, that house of God from Hebrews 3 verse 6.  That all is us, the saved, the believers in Jesus, who wish to desire to do His will in everything.  Good works are good, communicating the message of Jesus’ love for us is good, it is part of how we desire to honor God, but there is a time coming that those things will be irrelevant, and God’s plan in some way accounts for a time that we only can understand at this point in time quite dimly, and trying to hold onto any chaff that the wind and fire of the Holy Spirit is blowing and burning away is counterproductive.

            I can be reached by email at simplechurchminute@yahoo.com or at 757-735-xxxx. What I just said went fast; to read what I just said, I have it posted on my blog, tevyebird.blogspot.com, with additional information, posted to September 11, 2011.  To find out more about simple church on a national and international scale, visit www.simplechurch.com and, for this area, at www.hrscn.org.  

            Milt Rodriguez quote from his blog, miltrodriguez.wordpress.com, from 7/6/2011.  Frank Viola quote from his book, From Eternity to Here (Colorado Springs, CO: David C. Cook, 2009) p. 213-214.  This book is an excellent, thorough examination of this subject.  Frank has additional resources at his website www.ptmin.org, and his blog is www.frankviola.org.

2032--priesthood of believers

            The following is a lengthening to five minutes (speaking time) of the commentary I posted in December, 2010, which was #32.  One of the notable features here is that I quote from Jon Zens’ The Pastor Has No Clothes, which was only released this year.  I guess that is one thing we can all look forward to as we live this life, both spiritually and physically, is the continual incorporating of ideas from others wiser than ourselves.

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2032—priesthood of believers

            My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute.  First Peter chapter 2 verses 4 to 6 say, “Coming to Him (that’s Jesus) as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.  Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion, A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame”.  Revelation chapter 1 verses 5 and 6 say, “To him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever.”  Believers are the house of God, and Jesus is the Cornerstone, and every believer is a priest before God.

These scriptures speak of the church, which is God’s people, who desire to build up each other to honor Him.  According to scripture, the church is not a building or a special type of not for profit organization.  Nowhere in those scriptures describing the goings on of the New Covenant people, or any other verses, are the words church, temple, or house of God used to refer to a building or corporation.  The church is a group of believers, even where two or three are gathered.  The theologian Jon Zens has written that the modern English word that is closest to what the early church meant by “church” is “town meeting.”  First Corinthians chapter 3 verses 16 and 17 and chapter 6 verse 19 tell us that we (plural) are the temple of the Holy Spirit, the temple of God.

            A priest, both in the Old Testament and in the pagan beliefs surrounding Israel, was an intercessor between God and man.  When Jesus was tortured to death, God made an earthquake to happen that, in the temple in Jerusalem, tore the veil that separated man from the ark that represented God’s seat.  That signified that, by Jesus’ death, there was no longer a need for an intercessor between God and man.  That’s basic Christian teaching, but after faith in Jesus was made legal by the Roman Empire, one of the things that disappeared soon after was the informal encouraging of each other, replaced by a ritualistic ceremony led by one head person, who eventually was called a priest.  The people who were foremost in the Reformation recognized that the title was incorrect, but among churches that rejected the title priest, they continued to operate with one person in charge, even though First Thessalonians chapter 5 verse 11 tells us to build up each other, and that is practically impossible to do when one person feels he or she (usually he) is responsible to do all the building up, oftentimes in part to justify collecting a salary.

            In this world, I may feel more like a prisoner than a king, and in many parts of the world our brothers and sisters in Jesus may be actually prisoners, but Jesus has made us priests—we can speak to God directly in prayer, without any human intermediary, and the Spirit can communicate the groanings of our spirit, and the Spirit can speak to others through us, as scripture tells us that He gives spiritual gifts, not titles.  We are commanded to pray without ceasing.  I have come to understand that as an attitude of desiring constant communication and communion with God.  I can’t do my job, drive to work, care for my family with my eyes closed and hands folded, but God never defined that as being connected to prayer. 

            The Roman Empire either forced, or somehow allowed pagan customs into the newly organizational church.  They had buildings built over the tombs of the apostles, and named churches after the apostles, like paganism named temples after pagan deities. 

              You can email me at simplechurchminute@yahoo.com or phone me at 757-735-xxxx.  If you would like to go over what I just said at your own pace, a transcript of this talk I have on my blog, tevyebird.blogspot.com, in the entry dated August 28, 2011. You can find out more about non-corporation oriented meetings of believers at www.hrscn.org.

All the scripture quotations, above, are from NKJV.  Zens made the statement I refer to in his book, The Pastor Has No Clothes (Lincoln, NE: Ekklesia, 2011).  I said that God does not give out titles; I address 1 Timothy 3:1 in the commentaries on elders.

Simple Church Minute 97--God's Eternal Purpose

97--God’s Eternal Purpose

THIS BLIP IS NOT ON FIRST RECORDING

My name is Tom; this is Simple Church Minute.

            What is God’s eternal purpose?  It isn’t the Great Commission. It didn’t exist before history, in the Old Covenant, and Jesus didn’t deliver it to us until just before he went back to heaven.  At his return and the final judgment, it will again cease to be relevant.  It isn’t doing good, although, again, we should.  That doesn’t make sense as a purpose before creation, and we cannot grasp what that is after God defeats sin finally at the end.  So what is God’s eternal purpose?

            Four things, in no particular order.  Ephesians 2 verse 13 tells us Jesus made peace and broke down the division between Jew and Gentile  so both can be one humanity, one body—the Body of Christ, the church.

            Ephesians chapter 5 verses 25 to 31 tell us that, as a man is joined to a woman in marriage, so Jesus is to be joined to his Bride, the church.

            First Corintians 6 verse 19 tells us God wanted a place to dwell that was greater, more extreme than the Old Covenant tabernacle and temple. We, the Body and Bride of Christ, are that temple of the Holy Spirit.  We believers, as a group, are the dwelling place of God.

Ephesians 3 verse 15 and First Peter 4 verse 17 tell us God wanted a family.  Once again, that is those adopted by faith into the New Covenant family of God, the church.

            In the Old Testament, God directed the building of the tabernacle and the temple. When Israel was in exile, they made the synagogue, but God did not direct its building.  In the Gospels, we find that Jesus taught the disciples, who, after Jesus left and sent the Holy Spirit, taught the New Covenant believers to be the church, the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, the temple of the Holy Spirit, the family of God.  Church buildings and not for profit corporations, like the Old Covenant synagogue, are well meaning but once again man-made.

            You can email me at simplechurchminute@gmail.com. For more info on simple forms of worship, visit http://www.simplechurch.com/ or (local website).